Comments on: Life as matter and matter only: the fraud https://blog.nomorefakenews.com/2015/11/01/life-as-matter-and-matter-only-the-fraud/ NoMoreFakeNews.com Mon, 09 Nov 2015 04:52:21 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=5.2.10 By: blakmira https://blog.nomorefakenews.com/2015/11/01/life-as-matter-and-matter-only-the-fraud/#comment-18247 Mon, 09 Nov 2015 04:52:21 +0000 https://jonrappoport.wordpress.com/?p=12573#comment-18247 Originating from the Essenes (the forerunners of the gnostic Christians), the original Holy Trinity was a perfect circle depicting the universe as a complete family: 1) Father/Creator, 2) Son of God/All Mankind, and 3) Mother Earth.

The term Holy Spirit aka Holy Ghost is actually quite meaningless. It was meant to deliberately replace and X out Nature and Mother Earth.
When the Roman Empire Constantine’s Council of Bishops “corrected” the Bible, they removed just about anything that didn’t agree with their hedonistic, violent lifestyle, especially anything to do with respect for nature and compassion for animals (to the point that it is now viewed as “heresy” by fundamentalist Paulians); androgyny (where homosexuality is now punished by eternal damnation); the purification of body (where eating flesh and blood is now considered acceptable), and reincarnation (declared as taboo to be taught, and replaced with guilt, fear and eternal hellfire after just one short lifetime on earth).

In the basic definition of gnosticism, the underworld is associated with matter, flesh, time and, more particularly, an imperfect world that lasts only a short time. That is the realm where the temporary brain and body reside.

Whereas the world of God is represented by the upper world and is associated with the soul and perfection; it is eternal and not part of the physical. It is impalpable and timeless. And that is where the mind, spirit/essence and soul of every living being resides….eternally.

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By: henry https://blog.nomorefakenews.com/2015/11/01/life-as-matter-and-matter-only-the-fraud/#comment-18246 Tue, 03 Nov 2015 18:49:51 +0000 https://jonrappoport.wordpress.com/?p=12573#comment-18246 It is conjecture that consciousness can exist outside of minds. The formula to calculate the area of a circle existed before any human discovered it but these preexisting ideas are not consciousness. In your analogy, ideas may be like radio waves that are waiting to be sensed. Without a radio, the ideas are not detected. But, the radio is not conscious. It only translates the existing waves from one frequency to another. The mind of a listener decodes the information and incorporates the concepts into it’s conceptual structure. A conscious mind can store knowledge, use that knowledge base to interpret the meaning of stimuli, take action based on the phenomena detected, and feed the results of the action back into the mind.

Did mathematical ideas come into existence by some being long ago or are they based on the structure of this universe? If it is the former, what mechanism is used to broadcast the waves? Are all ideas, including non-mathematical ideas, preexisting? Are there other ideas that were created by some long ago beings that were not broadcasted? Are smarter people just better radio listeners? Is there any evidence that each of us has a radio receiver, and possibly a radio transmitter, embedded in us? Since I have seen no evidence of this, I propose that the wave model of thought is probably incorrect. I propose that some people have organized their thoughts to discover the laws of the universe and have handed us these ideas via coded symbols. People learn to decode the symbols and learn the ideas by decoding the symbols. If nobody learned to read, the books would contain information waiting for minds that can. Books contain information and not knowledge. They are not conscious.

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By: Michael Burns https://blog.nomorefakenews.com/2015/11/01/life-as-matter-and-matter-only-the-fraud/#comment-18245 Tue, 03 Nov 2015 06:44:10 +0000 https://jonrappoport.wordpress.com/?p=12573#comment-18245 @Doug the Icepick

If I break a radio and tear it part into its smallest pieces; have I killed the broadcaster?
How about if I break all radios, throughout the whole Universe?…the broadcast remains.
Some are limited to the A M (amplitude modulation)
Some…
have A M and F M (frequency modulation)
And some transcend to microwave.
And then infrared…
and visible light,
ultra violet….and….
Consciousness is not limited to the brain….
If that were so then it would have died out a million years ago, with the first extinctions of sentients.
With the first extinctions of whole galaxies
You are swimming in consciousness.
And maybe then again your, not.

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By: Ozzie Thinker https://blog.nomorefakenews.com/2015/11/01/life-as-matter-and-matter-only-the-fraud/#comment-18244 Tue, 03 Nov 2015 06:10:05 +0000 https://jonrappoport.wordpress.com/?p=12573#comment-18244 @TI

Perhaps that’s me: https://exopolitician.wordpress.com/2015/09/11/life-of-mars-part-one-inspired-by-harry-potter/

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By: Ozzie Thinker https://blog.nomorefakenews.com/2015/11/01/life-as-matter-and-matter-only-the-fraud/#comment-18243 Tue, 03 Nov 2015 05:55:53 +0000 https://jonrappoport.wordpress.com/?p=12573#comment-18243 @DS

Lots of pretty materialist “labels” here. As with “nothing” and “potential”, consciousness doesn’t exist and that makes it much greater and more flexible than material existence which is contained by a series of rules (you need to review the QUANTUM level to understand what they are).

Brave wannabe scientist, tell me, fundamentally, what light is? Remember, as Einstein recognised, everything is made of nothing and light; that’s it. We [think we] know nothing doesn’t exist, but what about light? Is that an illusion or something more?

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By: Doug Stephens https://blog.nomorefakenews.com/2015/11/01/life-as-matter-and-matter-only-the-fraud/#comment-18242 Tue, 03 Nov 2015 00:12:58 +0000 https://jonrappoport.wordpress.com/?p=12573#comment-18242 You say that: “If there is any consciousness to be found anywhere, it is not in the brain.”

Have you considered that there is a mighty strong correlation between your brain and consciousness that can be simply demonstrated with an ice pick?

Both the knowing and the awareness of knowing end immediately upon insertion.

One could argue that this correlation rises to being cause and effect. Disrupt the function of the brain and consciousness goes kaput.

Thinking of it, pun intended, this can be demonstrated with run of the mill general anesthesia, whose administration results in a loss of consciousness and whose actions, although imperfectly understood by current science, derive from biological and chemical actions within the central nervous system.

Therefore, consciousness must reside in the brain, eh?

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By: lemniscate888 https://blog.nomorefakenews.com/2015/11/01/life-as-matter-and-matter-only-the-fraud/#comment-18241 Mon, 02 Nov 2015 17:38:39 +0000 https://jonrappoport.wordpress.com/?p=12573#comment-18241 Roger Penrose in his book Shadows of the Mind proves using a Cantor like argument that a machine can never become conscious. Amongst humanity we have great artists and musicians,
also great creative mathematicians. Let us see if a machine can solve the Riemann Zeta function conjecture.

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By: Tomi Itkonen https://blog.nomorefakenews.com/2015/11/01/life-as-matter-and-matter-only-the-fraud/#comment-18240 Mon, 02 Nov 2015 17:32:54 +0000 https://jonrappoport.wordpress.com/?p=12573#comment-18240 Thanks Henry for additional comments.

Yes, generating gibberish is easy. However, there’s a huge leap to generate something that makes sense and some of us intelligent humans want to read, something that adds value.

I keep following this space, for instance what the company just purchased by Google – DeepMind.com – is up to.

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By: henry https://blog.nomorefakenews.com/2015/11/01/life-as-matter-and-matter-only-the-fraud/#comment-18239 Mon, 02 Nov 2015 17:13:38 +0000 https://jonrappoport.wordpress.com/?p=12573#comment-18239 When an intelligent person solves a problem and codes a dumb computer to solve the problem, the computer looks intelligent but this intelligence is artificial. When a machine can store knowledge, learn, and predict future events based on the past, the machine is not artificially intelligent. It has real intelligence. This was the state of the art nine years ago.

Will they someday write the next Harry Potter? I don’t know but just google “computer generated news” to see that they are already writing non-fiction. Writing fiction is not difficult but writing fiction that people want to read is. The product must contain ideas that the audience finds useful and be in a language that they can comprehend. A very small populations of humans can do this so machines doing this may be some time off.

I’m not sure if the “self driving cars” are intelligent or artificial but systems with the goal seeking components will be on the market soon. What is needed are rules to contain this technology before it is too late.

As to Jon’s points: Humans learned to read, write, farm, sail, fly, invent, and kill in a massive scale before they learned of the atomic structure let alone the sub atomic structures. Is it necessary for intelligent machines to have experiences beyond their senses? Mathematical ideas existed before humans discovered them: area of a circle = π times the radius squared. Perhaps all ideas existed and are just waiting for minds to discover them. The process of discovery is the same in humans and intelligent machines. Perhaps machines will never be able to comprehend the ideas that humans have. But, then again, they may go beyond their human creators.

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By: Tomi Itkonen https://blog.nomorefakenews.com/2015/11/01/life-as-matter-and-matter-only-the-fraud/#comment-18238 Mon, 02 Nov 2015 14:16:55 +0000 https://jonrappoport.wordpress.com/?p=12573#comment-18238 You make it sound so simple. 🙂

I have hard time believing that’s so easy to implement.

Or is there a prototype somewhere running, learning and writing the next Harry Potter?

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